maskormenace | 002 | Text; Forward dated to the evening of the 30th

That's a bit of a strange question, and admittedly not one I'm very familiar with. Can I ask what brought this up, Megaman?

Nothing, really. [Megaman you are a TERRIBLE LIAR.] Just been having some trouble sleeping. Guess it got me thinking.

[that's interesting. do NetNavis sleep? she honestly has no idea.]

Ah. Well, I've had the process of dreaming described to me as the human brain attempting to defragment itself. It takes the disparate information it's encountered over the course of the day and, while the human sleeps, the brain takes all that data and attempts to place it in the most logical places for the human brain to store it. This doesn't explain the phenomenon of lucid dreaming, which I've heard described as complete control over one's dreams; nor does it explain nightmares, which as I understand operate on long-standing fears that could not reasonably have been encountered in the course of a single day.

I'm sorry, that was much longer than I meant it to be. TL;DR, I suppose, is that dreaming is very weird and not wholly understood even by those who have dreams.

[Well, they do and they don't. Navis who've been stuck in human bodies definitely do sleep, at least. Also never apologize for textwalling at him, Tempo, Megaman likes getting new data.]

Wait, humans can control their dreams? And I thought everything else was weird.

The defragmenting makes sense - I'm pretty sure we're programmed to do the same thing during our recharge cycles. Defragment, finish processing, and store new data we didn't get through while 'awake.' We're just not supposed to be aware of it happening. Getting used to a glitch being normal is difficult.

That's interesting. I wouldn't expect technology as advanced as yours to have glitches, even if they do seem to be relatively benign. Is it disturbing you? Are you still able to function properly? I don't know if I would be able to help much, but surely someone here must be able to debug you if you are in need of aid.

[ JOIN THE CLUB, KID, HE'S BEEN HAVING NIGHTMARES SINCE HE GOT HERE ]

I've been told that tiring yourself out extensively ensures dreamless sleep, but I've never consciously tried it.

Some people believe their dreams have meaning about problems in their waking life. I suppose that holds some water.

Having trouble sleeping?

[Hey it's not his fault that he dodged the bullet this long, or that what finally got him was WEEKS OF MASS HUMAN DEATHS. It's honestly a miracle he hasn't started having night terrors ~~yet~~.

Also that sure was an interestingly specific way to phrase that, Magicman.]

Seems like a lot of effort to go through just to not have dreams.

That makes some sense, if they're supposed to be a result of nonconcious processing. It's so weird that that's normal for humans.

[Wait for it. Waaaaaaaait for it.]

A little. [Like pulling teeth with him.]

[ HE JUST ENDS UP CRASHING OKAY... ]

They come from the subconscious, or so I've heard. Human brains are remarkably efficient at jamming everything together like some kind of whirlpool, so that can come out in your dreams.

A strange thing.

I see.

[ GENTLY...CLICKS THIS ONTO PRIVATE... ]

I like to stave off sleep until option becomes necessity, but I suppose that's not optimal for you.

No wonder most worlds haven't figured out true AI, with how different our minds work.

[He appreciates the privating so much you have no idea.]

Not really, no. I have enough trouble even getting tired in the first place. If I did that, who knows when I'd end up sleeping. [Sleep schedules are haaaaaard.]

We're very complex, but we're machines, at heart. For a given value of heart. Not that it makes us less emotional - just different.

Though the argument could be put forward that the brain is just a very advanced organic computer, though no computer ever saw the need for dreams.

You just sort of shut down without warning. It's very tedious.

Have you tried taking melatonin? I've heard it stimulates the body's natural sleep cycle - it's the same chemical used by the human brain, after all.

They just happen to me, I don't know how to stop it.

[his replies will be noticeably slow, but this is a non-crisis conversation and so Jonathan has no excuse not to practice his typing skills! big bara hands and tiny keyboards can't fight him forever.]

I've heard that in recent years there's been significant study done in regards to dreams on a scientific level, although I'm afraid I don't know much about the particulars.

Dreams are merely our minds trying to work out the problems whose answers have eluded us during the day, I think. I don't think there's much to be done about avoiding certain things, although I have heard you can induce lucid dreaming willfully.

[if there was a way to avoid certain dreams, Jonathan probably wouldn't have had to suffer through that recurring nightmare for so long. alas.]

Makes sense. I know scientists back home have been studying dreaming too. I guess I was hoping someone here came from a world that managed to figure it out.

I can see that. You'd think they'd make more sense, though, or be about things you can actually do something about.

[He knows that recurring nightmare thing now, and he really wishes he didn't. Especially when it involves a lot of real deaths he can't do anything about.]

Lucid dreaming is where you can control your dreams, right? That's so strange.

Some of our problems are rather abstract, and without guidance I suppose it's rather difficult for the brain to discern what's necessary and what isn't. It's a difficult enough job during waking hours, isn't it?

But I don't think controlling dreams is so strange. It's our mind, in the end, isn't it?

dreams are like if you took all the thoughts you have and the things you've seen when you're awake and you threw everything into a blender. there's not much rhyme or reason to it.

if you're worried, though, that helps to fuel the bad dreams.

[ A beat. ]

i have those, the bad ones, more often than i'd like to.

So it really is just being aware of nonconcious data processing. [That's so strange. Why are humans so accepting of something that's a serious glitch in navis?] So if you focus on certain things during the day, that could affect the dreams you have?

I'm sorry.

Often times dreams will bring up things we'd rather not think about or have buried deep in our subconscious.
Usually when we least expect it or under stress.
They can be particularly nasty like that.

Edited 2015-04-30 07:37 (UTC)

That feels like something humans would be more concerned about, instead of just accepting it. Wouldn't it be better to prevent that?

they can be different for everyone but from what I've heard the general consensus is that they're repressed thoughts or memories trying to surface. I've heard some claims that nightmares specifically can become more intense after something traumatic happens that you didn't get to deal with completely. I'm not sure about just regular dreams.

[ mostly because ellie herself doesn't have regular dreams. she just has nightmares. ]

[Considering what kick-started his nightmares, he can completely understand the trauma theory.]

So nightmares are the brain trying to process something upsetting because you haven't processed it properly when you're awake. I hadn't thought of that, it makes a lot of sense.

Does that mean that dealing with the cause when you're awake will make those dreams stop?

Supposedly that has something to do with it. I've heard that dealing with the cause can help to clear them up in time. It might be worth giving it a try if they're really bothering you and you know there's something you haven't dealt with the way you should.

[Nightmares? Even if this is one of those mechanical beings, Crane's in like a shot. This is his favorite subject.]

There are medicines humans can take to stop themselves dreaming. Admittedly, I prescribe them without encouraging analysis of underlying thought, in select cases where the effects will immediately prove beneficial.

I do not enjoy the thought of leaving someone in pain, and am a strong advocate for the effects drugs have over the mind and body.

[Ahaha.]

I am always encouraging of the two-handed approach, though. One cannot heal the mind without understanding the psychological fracture behind it all.

[...there is absolutely nothing in that reply that isn't putting him on edge. Talk of medication and psychological analysis = Instant Nope.

THAT BEING SAID.]

If dreams are capable of being that harmful for someone, that they'd need to be medicated, then why are they accepted as normal? If there's no definitive proof that they're beneficial then it seems wrong to not be more concerned about it.

[This response has Crane feel nothing but contempt for society's standards; what humans accept as normal is just their response to the fear. Fear of the unknown, of what they'll dream, and the fear to reach for their dreams. It's normal to be terrified.

His fascination for the fear humans feel, their terror of confronting their dreams, it all loosens his tongue.]

Interesting. Dreams themselves span from the ordinary to the bizarre, and their natures can be magical, adventurous or terrifying. Recurring nightmares need medical help, yes, but their existance is as much part of human nature as a decent night's sleep. What exactly makes you believe it's wrong not to be concerned, taking all that into consideration?

yeah dreams are weird as hell a lotta the time
like once i was playing mahjong against a dog in one
and the dog was winning

im sure theres a way to try and dream about certain stuff but i aint tried it
i figure it's all just bullshit in your mind, and it goes away when you wake up.

[Okay, that's a mental image that gets a little chuckle out of him. He needed that.]

That just makes me wonder why humans can even dream in the first place, if that's the case. It feels like it might be more harmful than beneficial.

who even knows
some people think there's some deep psychology shit to it
but i figure it's not like our brains shut off, so there's always something going on there

it just gets weirder when we're asleep

You could probably find some studies if you did proper research on it.

That said, from what I know- generally, they 'just happen'. Dreams are our brains trying to make sense of the events we've gone through, or what we want to have happen. And when you're not in full control of your thoughts, they can get away from you.

But what you're talking about sounds like lucid dreaming. I haven't had much luck with that myself, but it's worth a try.

[Honestly it was kind of a spur-of-the-moment question; he's only been thinking about this for maybe an hour, tops. Plus it's easier to keep himself awake if he's having conversations as opposed to just reading. He's...not exactly the best at handling upsetting issues.]

I'm starting to feel like nonconcious processing in humans works differently than what I'm used to. I can't imagine being aware enough to think without having control over it.

It's possible to have a lucid dream on purpose? How?

Like anything, it takes practice. I'm not a hundred percent sure what I can compare it to for you, but from what I understand on the human side, it takes recognizing that you're in a dream and then exerting control.

Whenever I tried to do that, myself, the dream generally came to a stand still and didn't go anywhere at all. But I usually can wake myself up, once I recognize I'm dreaming.

Dreams are widely considered manifestations of our unconscious thoughts. As we’re unconscious, these thoughts come quicker, uninhibited, and more intense than they do in the waking world, so it's very hard to exert any control over them. But it is possible, and regularly practiced by lucid dreamers. You would be lucky to achieve what you're after, though. It takes time, often a very long time, so it might be a better idea to deal with the source of these dreams you’re trying to avoid rather than the dreams themselves.

dreams are awesome cause its like your brains a movie producer that comes up with THE AWESOMEST PLOTS

[And another reply that gets him to laugh. He's so glad he decided on going to the network instead of just doing research, he needs these little moments.]

I guess some of them can be pretty interesting! It's just so weird when you've never had dreams before.

you never dreamed before!!???? :O

you have missed. SO. MUCH.

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so i'm going to assume they talked enough for robert to learn re; him being an AI/Navi?

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