maskormenace

Recent events have me thinking.

[ Stark says, taking a sip from his cup, before he focuses back on a camera. It's a lot more HD than your usual import camera -- then again, nothing but the best for Tony Stark. ]

In recent months, we've had people showing up, different times, completely different people, and now there's word of people sticking around. That's different, it's never happened before. [ A pause, a sip. ] But who knows, it could be a fluke, right? Or maybe I don't have complete data. Anyone else heard of anything like that happening?

I mean, that's as an aside. I've... I've seen a lot of people hold themselves responsible -- myself included -- for things that someone who isn't them did. Either a person they become, a person they were and aren't anymore -- or a completely different person.

Would you hold them responsible? After my...unfortunate incident I found people were holding me responsible for things that this -- different version of me had done. Is that a constant? Should people be held accountable for things that they weren't necessarily guilty of? If I'm ported out tomorrow, would the Tony Stark that replaces me be held accountable for anything I did over my time here?

[ Another pause then. His finger drums against the glass. ] Anyone have any thoughts?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

It's not a new question, particularly in the case of amnesiacs. There's no straight or correct answer, really.

Personally, I believe in accountability in most cases. But forgiveness for wrong-doings may well come easier under such outstanding circumstances.

But should they actually be held accountable? For something they didn't do?

I don't care about forgiveness, I care about justice.

It's something they did do; they simply don't recall it.

Now, if it were something they committed against their will- through whatever means- then yes, that wasn't their fault.

But on a lesser scale, where 'forgiveness' relates to a personal lack of need for justice, I've apologized for social... mishaps that occurred when I was my younger self months ago, and got one when similar inappropriate conduct that occurred to me just recently.

Nothing worth jailing anyone for, but the principle of accountability remains.

Edited 2016-06-28 05:10 (UTC)

But think about it this way: we had people who were not themselves.

They were practically an alternate version -- different in every sense of the world. Different experiences, different perceptions, different people, despite the physical hand that committed the action.

So should that be punished on the person who they weren't, when they come to?

Yes. Possibly to a lesser extent given those circumstances, but simply letting them off sounds highly irresponsible.

Those people may have been different, but there is a version of them that did those things, and however unfair it may seem to them, it's important to hold them accountable for those actions so that they may not be repeated in the future.

Of course with this world's justice system for imPorts, it really hardly matters.

So, when you're replaced by a version of you that's a mass-murderer, you're okay with the death penalty?

Or life in prison?

In short, I'd understand the need for punishment, and I'd argue for a lighter sentence, but would certainly feel some degree of responsibility for those happenings. In the eyes of many, I would still seem dangerous.

So you're perfectly willing to serve time for a crime that you -- for all intents and purposes -- didn't commit?

What about in the case of possession?

And where's the line? How's it different?

Not perfectly willing, no. I'd sooner live in isolation. But I'd understand it.

In the case of possession, crimes would be committed against the individual's will. They've been manipulated and aren't in control of their actions. There's someone masterminding control and forcing their influence over another, and they're the culprit using someone else as a scapegoat.

An alternative self is still someone that is in all likelihood aware and in control of their actions.

But you, yourself, as an individual isn't in control of them.

If anything, you don't even get the option to resist, because you're simply no longer there. How are you any more in control of your actions if it's no longer you?

As I said, there's no correct answer. You aren't going to change my opinions with conjecture. Now if you're fishing for someone with a more forgiving nature, you may want to look elsewhere.

Actually, I'm trying to find the logic in your statements, Hermann.

It's not that I don't understand the emotions with wanting punishment, but I'm curious about where your sense of justice comes from.

[Exhausting]

My sense of justice is effectively rather black and white with a small grey area. The alternative self circumstance is within that gray area, but on the side of black. Therefore repercussion, though lighter than it otherwise would have been. That sentence can be negotiated, but there is still a sentence.

My logic stems from how I believe the justice system should work. Not how it does. It's all very subjective despite all attempts to remain objective.

Because if it allows for too many exemptions, it becomes meaningless at best and at worst, exploitable.

Right, black and white. That explains a lot, actually.

[ Said wryly. ]

In my experience -- and this is probably a difference in our worlds -- it's a lot more gray, and only little slivers of black and white.

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